Ancestory vs 23AndMe — a case study

Different sites match people differently. 23andMe has recently added very fine detail for regions as I reviewed inb my last post. For example:

DenmarkSH

When I go to Ancestry DNA — things are very different… no “Danish DNA” profiles..

Ancest

Clearly, 23AndMe has much finer identification of regions which appears to be very good (relatively speaking).

With 23AndMe, I ended up being 51% ‘pure Danish (if you count Skane as Danish), 10% Schleswig-Holstein – Actually 61% Danish if you use maps from 1600. The 20% British is a complex issue because Middle-Jutland is where a lot of the people that settled in the English “Dane Law” came from. Look at the two maps below – one is my DNA in UK and one is DaneLaw. My UK areas according to 23AndMe matches DaneLaw — not surprising for a Dane ;-).

danelaw

UK

And last, MyHeritage DNA

Again overlapping areas explain the different attributions

myHeritage

Which Service or Both?

What are the main differences:

  • 23andMe beats Ancestry.com for ancestors locations by several magnitudes. This is ideal for dealing with ‘missing paper records’ issues — you at least have some idea of where to look.
  • Ancestory has 9 million+ Dna Samples. 23andMe has 5 million samples. So trying to find missing families especially for adopted kidsAncestry beats 23AndMe, especially because of the intregration of Ancestry Trees.

screen-shot-2018-04-20-at-11.30.09-pm

Do Both?

I did both —

  • 23andMe allowed your Ancestry Dna to be upload to them for a while. This was a special in 2018 (see this post) – unfortunately no longer available

And more

” That means you can pay for a single test at AncestryDNA and copy the results to MyHeritageFamily Tree DNA, and Living DNA at no additional cost. This so-called transfer process won’t remove your DNA data (sometimes called a “kit”) from AncestryDNA, it’ll just add it to the other databases.” [src]

See this page for the various sites that you can transfer data to.

Ancestry Areas for their groupings

If you compare the regions identified by 23andMe, you see that Ancestry overlaps Denmark in all of the three regions they identified.

England

england

Sweden

sweden

Norway

Norway

Life is even more complex!

My original AncestryDNA results estimates are below:

old

They revised their numbers and I became:

new1

One of my daughters just got her results — and yes, ~ 50% of her DNA is from me, but her numbers are:

emm

Let us write out some simple math:  Mom + Dad = 200%, so kid % is typically (Mom% + Dad%) /2. This becomes

  • Mom= Kids% * 2 – Dads%

So we have for Mom

  • Swedish   = 52* 2 – 39 = 65%
  • Norwegian = 27 *2 – 18 = 36%
  • Finnish = 10 * 2 – 0 = 20%
  • German = 18 *2 – 0 = 36%
  • England =  2 * 2 – 42 = -38%

Something is VERY WRONG — the answer is actually fairly simple:

  • Different testing methods (Apples to Watermelons) using different reference sets -> different answers estimated.

There’s a second factor that is much harder to explain — overlapping patterns in DNA that are associated with multiple regions. One series may be associated with two places. If the mixture breaks the dna at the right spot, it is seen as English at another Finnish.

For finding DNA relatives— it is likely reliable

The reason is that we are matching precise sequences.

 

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How well do the detail Ancestor Report Match Up with Paper Records

I noticed that 23andMe has added some more detailed reports

“In the last 200 years, your ancestors may have lived in the following locations.”

For myself:

Denmark

Skane

UK

SH

Mother Side – 100% Right

Schleswig-Holstein and Central Denmark are very high frequency location in the records goingback to 1600.

Father Side – Zero

Family on all paths are Lollanders back to 1600’s in many cases. Every person born after 1800 (200+ years ago) are Lollanders.

Skippers and Sailors

The English area are all associated with seaports. I recently traced a 6th cousin and his family to Wales. He was born in Denmark. Was a ship skipper and settled in the UK originally and then moved to Cardiff, Wales where subsequent generations were born. The reverse is also possible, several ancestors were referred to as Captain or Boat Crew.

Skane —

This is a mystery…Skane or Scania has been the subject of many battles between Sweden and Denmark. Is it possible that there was migration of Danes not wishing to be Swedes, migrated to Lolland?

3rd 1x Cousin with DNA Match

This is an update to an earlier post,  I had the generations off:
https://dnafamilytree.wordpress.com/2018/12/23/another-paper-trail-to-match-dna/
…  Ibsen (DNA 47.5cM)
3rd 1x cousin
… Ibsen
Børge Vang Ibsen (DNA) (1915 – )
Father of Claus Ibsen (DNA 47.5cM)
Anna Christiane Moltrup (DNA) (1884 – )
Mother of Børge Vang Ibsen (DNA)
Christian Jensen Moltrup (DNA) (1848 – )
Father of Anna Christiane Moltrup (DNA)
Jens Christensen Moltrup (DNA) (1825 – 1864)
Father of Christian Jensen Moltrup (DNA)
Jensine Moltrup (DNA) (1855 – 1951)
Daughter of Jens Christensen Moltrup (DNA)
Kathrine Marie Kaltoft (DNA) (1883 – 1969)
Daughter of Jensine Moltrup (DNA)
Katrina Nielsen (1909 – 2006)
Daughter of Kathrine Marie Kaltoft (DNA)
Kenneth Martinus Lassesen
You are the son of Katrina Nielsen

A DNA to Paper Trail Matches back to 1570 – 9th cousin once removed

The most impressive one

This was definitely a lucky one — DNA cousin had the tree and for DNA match to work at this number of generation is luck that some portions kept together nicely thru the generations.

Shared Ancestor was born in 1570.

49411215_10157731748726336_7002294661108727808_n

Hans Christian Grue (1951 – )
9th cousin 1x removed
Vagn Kanul Grue (DNA) (1926 – 2002)
Father of Hans Christian Grue
Karen Margrethe Kubel (DNA) (1904 – 1986)
Mother of Vagn Kanul Grue (DNA)
Christian Thomsen Kubel (DNA) (1877 – 1939)
Father of Karen Margrethe Kubel (DNA)
Ellen Marie Thomson (DNA) (1850 – 1920)
Mother of Christian Thomsen Kubel (DNA)
Christian Thomson (DNA) (1792 – 1862)
Father of Ellen Marie Thomson (DNA)
Jeppe Christensen (DNA) (1765 – 1851)
Father of Christian Thomson (DNA)
Christen Madsen (DNA) (1705 – 1784)
Father of Jeppe Christensen (DNA)
Kristen Christendatter (DNA) (1681 – 1715)
Mother of Christen Madsen (DNA)
Else Hansdatter (DNA) (1640 – 1694)
Mother of Kristen Christendatter (DNA)
Hans Christensen (DNA) (1610 – 1669)
Father of Else Hansdatter (DNA)
Christen Jensen/Hansen (DNA) (1575 – 1647)
Father of Hans Christensen (DNA)
Christen Christensen (DNA) (1600 – 1637)
Son of Christen Jensen/Hansen (DNA)
Hans Christensen (DNA) (1625 – 1700)
Son of Christen Christensen (DNA)
Niels Hansen (DNA) (1669 – 1728)
Son of Hans Christensen (DNA)
Christen Nielsen (DNA) (1717 – 1791)
Son of Niels Hansen (DNA)
Maren Christensdr (DNA) (1756 – 1806)
Daughter of Christen Nielsen (DNA)
Niels Hansen (DNA) (1782 – 1854)
Son of Maren Christensdr (DNA)
Mikkel Martinus Nielsen (1881 – 1959)
Son of Bo Marturin Nielsen (DNA)
Katrina Nielsen (1909 – 2006)
Daughter of Mikkel Martinus Nielsen
Kenneth Martinus Lassesen
You are the son of Katrina Nielsen

Two successful DNA match to a 5th cousin 1x removed

I was working on Ancestry DNA and had a close 3-4th cousin DNA match. Their records ended with a  Elizabeth Christine Hansen. Born in New Jersey, 28 Jan 1895. No parents etc. From her (and her siblings) marriage certificates I got the parents name and from that was able to find one of them in Denmark.

Marcus Hansen

Birth/Baptism: Jan 10 1868 – Halk, Haderslev, Haderslev, Denmark
Parents: Jes Madsen Hansen, Anna Cathrine Kjær

This match the location of my mother’s family, and thus was consistent with DNA.

I was unable to find the full connection, and stopped at 1790’s. Before 1787, there was no Danish Census records and things take a lot more work!

Shared DNA Cousins #1

There was a stack of shared DNA Cousins, so I started to send out a summary of my research to them. A three way share usually means a common ancestor. As I was sending out my last email, the weakest DNA match, I saw a single-family name in her tree. Kaltoft. I went over to my tree and borrowed from her tree to complete our relationship. Shown below:

Sharon Peterson O’Ryan (1963 – )
5th cousin 1x removed
Richard Eugene O’Ryan (1939 – )
Father of Sharon Peterson O’Ryan
Beulah May Wood (1913 – 1980)
Mother of Richard Eugene O’Ryan
Hattie Kristine Madson (1886 – 1961)
Mother of Beulah May Wood
Hans Madsen (1856 – 1936)
Father of Hattie Kristine Madson
Magdalena Hansdatter Kaltoft (1795 – 1842)
Mother of Birgitte Hansdatter

Hans Hermansen Kaltoft (1740 – 1816)
Father of Magdalena Hansdatter Kaltoft

Niels Hansen Kaltoft (1828 – 1910)
Son of Hans Hansen Dauguard (Hermansen) Kaltoft
Hans Nielsen Kaltoft (1856 – 1934)
Son of Niels Hansen Kaltoft
Kathrine Marie Kaltoft (1883 – 1969)
Daughter of Hans Nielsen Kaltoft
Katrina Nielsen (1909 – 2006)
Daughter of Kathrine Marie Kaltoft
Kenneth Martinus Lassesen
You are the son of Katrina Nielsen
Actually, the relationship could also be via his wife:

Birthe Hansdatter Daugaard

DEATH 9 MAJ 1854  Højen, Vejle, Denmark

Shared DNA Cousin #2

Sandy Nelson
5th cousin 1x removed
Marilyn Mae Marsh (1931 – 2011)
Mother of Sandy Nelson
Bertha Viola Pedersen (1908 – 1963)
Mother of Marilyn Mae Marsh
Mads Peter Pedersen (1880 – 1957)
Father of Bertha Viola Pedersen
Mette Madsen (1842 – 1919)
Mother of Mads Peter Pedersen
Magdalena Hansdatter Kaltoft (1795 – 1842)
Mother of Birgitte Hansdatter
Hans Hermansen Kaltoft (1740 – 1816)
Father of Magdalena Hansdatter Kaltoft
Niels Hansen Kaltoft (1828 – 1910)
Son of Hans Hansen Dauguard (Hermansen) Kaltoft
Hans Nielsen Kaltoft (1856 – 1934)
Son of Niels Hansen Kaltoft
Kathrine Marie Kaltoft (1883 – 1969)
Daughter of Hans Nielsen Kaltoft
Katrina Nielsen (1909 – 2006)
Daughter of Kathrine Marie Kaltoft
Kenneth Martinus Lassesen
You are the son of Katrina Nielsen

Closer Shared Ancestors

The two DNA cousin share a closer connection with this being their common ancestor.

Kalthoft Ancestors

kat

A few highlights of direct ancestors and their siblings

  • Gunsmiths to:
    • Charles II of England
    • Tzar Alex I of Russia
    • Minister of Defense of Denmark under Frederick III of Denmark
  • Built the telescope used by Christiaan Huygens,  to see the Jupiter moon Titan for the first time.
  • Founded most of the iron smelters in Sweden and Norway

The guns they made are in:

  • Windsor Castle, UK
  • Kremlin Armory, Russia
  • Danish Armory, Copenhagen

A picture of the brother of a direct ancestor has been found (with his arm resting on the telescope).

1347e451-0327-4788-8a93-dfcb0687ec30

 

Another Paper Trail to Match DNA

A DNA match, C.I. has 0.7% DNA match with me.

C.I.
3rd cousin
Anna Christiane Moltrup (1884 – )
Mother of Børge Vang I.
Christian Jensen Moltrup (1848 – )
Father of Anna Christiane Moltrup
Jens Christensen Moltrup (1825 – 1864) + 
Father of Christian Jensen Moltrup
Jensine Moltrup (1855 – 1951)
Daughter of Jens Christensen Moltrup
Kathrine Marie Kaltoft (1883 – 1969)
Daughter of Jensine Moltrup
Katrina Nielsen (1909 – 2006)
Daughter of Kathrine Marie Kaltoft
Kenneth Martinus Lassesen
You are the son of Katrina Nielsen
The match is via one of these two:

Jens Christensen Moltrup

BIRTH 28 DEC 1825  Haderslev, Sonderjylland, Denmark

DEATH 14 OCT 1864  Øsby, Sonderjylland, Denmark

2nd great-grandfather

Kathrine Marie Christiansen Jensen

BIRTH 24 JUL 1827  Øsby, Sonderjylland, Denmark

DEATH 30 OKT 1895  Flensburg, Flensburg, Schleswig-Holstein, Germany

2nd great-grandmother

Other DNA Matches Shared

The closest shared by both of us, was Swedish, a SJ –  (0.6% and 0.7%) which strongly suggest she is from these people also. The next closest was also Swedish, P.J. (.5% and .3%). At this level randomness can push things one generation off.

Alternatively, the shared ancestor could be a brother or sister to the above. Here’s the tree

m1

m2

 

A probable match — due to DNA and Names

I am a close DNA cousin to someone in the US, and I have been trying to tie her into my tree.

“…My paternal grandmother traveled by wagon train from Clinton Iowa with her Danish parents 2 sisters & a brother. Her father died enroute, the rest ended up in Cass County ND. She married my paternal grandfather at age 15, and had my father at age 16, followed by 3 daughters, on a claim in now Williston, ND.”

I identified the paternal grandmother as the wife of Joseph Harley Knapp, Anne Christine.  Ancestry trees, identified her as Anne Christine Christensen – oh joy, a common name — but fortunately in some census records she also has the last name of Ottersetter — that’s an odd name but is likely an American Census Worker version of her father’s name:

Hans Jørgen Christensen Oster

DEATH ABT. 1890  USA

This person is my 2nd great-uncle.

 

Hans Jørgen Christensen Oster (1850 – 1890)
2nd great-uncle
Christian Nielsen (1806 – )
Father of Hans Jørgen Christensen Oster
Karen Kristensen (1853 – )
Daughter of Christian Nielsen
Katrina Nielsen (1909 – 2006)
Daughter of Mikkel Martinus Nielsen
Kenneth Martinus Lassesen
You are the son of Katrina Nielsen

 

He disappears from Danish Records which usually means immigration. I suspect around Second Schleswig War – (1864) when where they were living was occupied by the Germans. There are no confirmation records for him — so that matches.

DNA Matches

This matches exactly the chart from 23andMe.com (2nd Great Grandparents are Christian Nielsen and Sindet Oster.

cou

Walking down the tree we find that we are indeed the same generation.

We have 38 other DNA Cousins shared between us. For those cousins (which I will be emailing), the generations above our common ancestors that I know of is shown below.

n1

n2

The likely areas for the shared ancestors are:

  • Jels Sogn, Gram Herred, Haderslev Amt, Danmark
  • Åstrup, Haderslev, Haderslev Amt
  • Simmersted, Magstrup Sogn, Gram Herred, Haderslev Amt,

map

Followup

A message from a cousin identified exactly how another close DNA match fitted (You share 0.76% of your DNA with).

Update